While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. Where the Gage-class did resemble its cousin, however, was its heavy armor--the . The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove. Do you still have these boxes? This ammo is packed in the original 20rd. The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. Even though it can be found on sites like GunBroker for a premium, people are still in search of a modern-day equivalent. Newsletter Signup Home Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) A hollow-point that hits with over 500fp creates enough hydrostatic compression of the vascular system (regardless of the placement) to cause capillaries in the brain to burst. I decided on a Glock 27 .40 caliber loaded with Hornady Critical Duty. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. And the Golden Sabers that I fired did NOT have any pointed jacket petals; they were of a blunt shape. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. This ammo is packed in the original 20rd. Talon Defense | Laatuasunnot-The black talon round ddi not fail what failed was you used a handgun and the average human can take many hand gun rounds before stopping. Following the United States Army's selection of the SIG Sauer P320-derived M17 pistol in the Modular Handgun System competition, the Army announced two new 9mm rounds would be adopted alongside the gun, the M1152 Ball, an 115 grain full metal jacket round "for use against enemy personnel, for training, and for force protection", and the M1153 Special Purpose, a 147 grain jacketed hollow point round "for use in situations where limited over-penetration of targets is necessary to reduce collateral damage." [9], Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzis car. Right after the "Banning" of Winchester Black Talons-the developer of that bullet changed companies to "Remington". This is unlike traditional hollow point designs where the expanding jacket petals peel back almost completely behind the expanded mushroom shape. Find your best price for handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon - AmmoSeek.com Search Engine 2023 Barrett products are used by civilians, sport shooters, law enforcement agencies, the United States military, and more than 75 State Department-approved countries around the world. For collecting, it might be alright. (A claim disputed by the FBIs Medical Director, who stated that Grogans vision was not that bad.) [1] Black Talon ammunition was produced in the following calibers: 9mm Luger, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester, .338 Winchester Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. Killed after being shot 12 times. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bank robbers bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. At no point was the round ever prohibited by United States law. With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. Critics alleged the ammunition caused unnecessary physical damage. On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. The larger the wound channel the more likely the threat will drop quicker. They have taken your home, your job, your savings, your family, and even your friends from you. The Ranger SXT is the same bullet without the Lubalox coating. And 9mm blowing lungs out. The cartridge provided additional ammunition (so to speak) for gun control advocates to rally against civilian gun ownership while other critics focused on the Black Talon name. Introduced in 2007, the Ranger T Series is still available for purchase today. Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." . Black Talon, though innovative and groundbreaking back in the day, is nearly 25 years old. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition. 223 rounds. The Critical Duty FlexLock bullet incorporates two revolutionary Hornady features to deliver superior barrier penetration and consistent performance. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . XDS 45 Hornady Critical Defense / Golden Saber 185 gr Heres why. [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. Its Winchester ra9b, the b is for bonded, made for the feds. { I personally own 10 boxes of Winchester Black Talon in .45 ACP and 9mm.6 boxes of .38 Special and .357 Magnum.and 10 boxes of .44 Magnum. This "reverse taper" refers to the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than toward the base, enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead mushroom. The wound was not serious. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective self-defense round you could buy. Many in the firearms community noted the latter hollow point round is conspicuously similar to the Ranger T/ Black Talon, in response Winchester largely avoided the question, saying that despite obvious similarities the round was designed to "maximize performance based on the government specification set out in the request for proposal. This hollow-point ammunition became known for its bullet's unique construction and sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P I went to carrying a 40 cal Sig plus a backup and even 2 shotguns in my unit. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. Some say that SXT stands for the same exact thing. If you are desperate to get your hands on the original Black Talon, you can find it online, but at a jacked up price. I shot a male approx. Even if you dont hit a major organ like the heart a couple of large jagged holes into & out of a persons lungs will cause them to immediately experience collapsed lungs, considerable pain and difficultly inhaling. I think for defense most people use the 125 gr jhp or 158, something like that. We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. I carry a descendant of the Black Talon, Q4364. Unfortunately, Winchester stopped producing Black Talon ammunition in 2000, which only fed into its mystique. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. Of course, with a normal round, a Teflon-coated bullet has no advantages overa conventional bullet when striking a protective vest. Additionally, the FlexLock core eliminates clogging, improves bullet expansion, and maximizes weight retention in regard to terminal ballistics. John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. That soon led to a popular assumption that the rounds were armor-piercing and presented a threat to police. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. Another popular characteristic of Black Talon ammo is a coating known as Lubalox that is applied . Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. I met Mr. Mireles after his recovery. [19] Frye assisted Hanlon. By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. I have tested the PDX-1 in .45ACP and found that it needs at least 4 of bbl. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. Needless to say, Jihawg Ammo quickly found itself the target of criticism and even derision from much of the gun owning community. at about 25 feet and while one round hit dead center chest it failed to end the gun fight. Weve already featured a few hollow point rounds on this list, but in a general sense, all hollow point ammo is controversial. Think a little bit harder/smarter. Glock 19 HST 124 +P / Critical Duty 135 gr +P Great read, all the correct info in the correct order and on point and subject. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. Testing out the Winchester Ranger SXT .357 Magnum 180 gr SXT (Black Talon bullet circa 1993) in a 10% Clear Ballistics test in my 4" S&W 686 and 2" Taurus 60. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. On internet forums, gun enthusiasts frequently joke that that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing",[13] though the official branding is Supreme eXpansion Technology. Regardless it was a tragic, horrific day in south Florida in particular that day as well as law enforcement in general. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. Best Handguns for Detectives in Fiction | The Writer's Guide to Weapons. Anything on that list should do the trick. What sets Black Talon bullets apart is their six sharp talons" designed to unsheathe once inside the victims body, thus tearing the wound channel to pieces. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. On impact, the material is forced into engineered internal fissures to start the expansion process. My absolute favorite based on my tests, their tests, and the awesome pic that shows the bullet cut in half, revealingt he load of balls. Even today as I re-stock my armory of weapons I do so based on the events of that day. They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. Black Talon is incredibly ammo efficient. 24 years ago, Black Talon ammo hit the dealers shelves with a advertising blitz on the part of Winchester. This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. An example is a 9mm 50 grain JHP that has a velocity of 2000 Ft per second! The Hornady TAP isnt a bad round either but I still lean towards Federal ammunition, the Hydra-Shock Deep is a good round as well. Terminal ballistics testing of hollow point bullets is generally performed in ballistic gelatin, or some other medium intended to simulate tissue and cause a hollow point bullet to expand. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. Black Talon was controversial, and Winchester discontinued sales to the general public in 1993 and ceased manufacture in 2000. I was honored to meet him 4 more times. When he was hand cuffed and moved a second weapon had been in his good hand. Manufacturer. The lawsuit, however, was dismissed. Winchester Black Talon bullets were released by Winchester and debuted at SHOT Show in 1991. How many times have you heard about the last round youll ever need? Or how about guaranteed stopping power? Its a given that ammunition manufacturers want to make the best, most efficient product possibleand that basically means that the more lethal the round, the better it is. Due to all of the controversy, the Black Talon has now become a notorious legend of almost mythical proportions. will make the case that you were just looking for a chance to use them! We were operating a Advanced Combat Survival course (TAMU). Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup gun. The initial collision that forced the suspects off the road caused some unforeseen problems for the agents, as the FBI vehicles sustained damage from the heavier, older car driven by Matix. Are Black Talon Bullets armor-piercing? [8] Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout,[8] but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying. A 3.5 Kahr failed to expand a round from the same box, and the bullet behaved like ball ammo. [1] [23] Mireles reached the drivers side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. a full box of the original black talon I told them they could ooo and aaah at their own discretion as I collected the loose rounds. The real truth is that you will be in-famous. Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol). I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. Despite its unique design, the Black Talon was found to be comparable in performance to conventional hollow-points. I have ?? I own a lot of the DPX and EDC it, but those magazines dont go aanywhere near my nightstand. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. This ammo was not only controversial, some called it downright offensive. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. While its black color and petal-like construction gave it a very distinctive look,. Most of the design for the Black Talon was rolled over into the Ranger SXT ammunition, which operates on much the same principle. I bought a few boxes of what was then called Halo rounds which are now sold under the name Civil Liberty ammunition after Microsoft sued them over copyright issues because of the video game Halo. Seriously injured by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm. I listened to a career paramedic say If someone must be shot, shoot them a lot, because the human body can endure a great deal of damage and remain in the fight You sir, have experienced that first hand! Not only does Jihawg guarantee that all of their ammunition meets or exceeds S.A.A.M.I. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. 357 black talon ammo for sale and auction. However, it was soon discovered that the bullets also had improved penetration against certain surfaces (like car doors and windows) because it decreased deflection. Nevertheless, Winchester still buckled to the pressure and in 2000 discontinued the Black Talon, albeit in name only. If you are as clueless as I was, the Black Talon is a self-defense round manufactured by Winchester in the early 90s. I was on duty that morning in Miami and heard it go down on my police radio Since it was being dispatch County wide as it was happening, After that day and event and listening to Sgt Dave Rivers who was in charged of MDPD crime scene unit give a detailed account of the events that took place and all the things that happened surrounding it I vowed I would let myself be outgunned. Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. The Black Talon and other high-performance ammunition combine a hollow point, which enables the bullet to expand upon impact, and notched configurations, which direct the expansion into a sharp . They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. Luckily, 10mm handguns were new and not many shooters had them. The 147 "SXT" bullet in the Premium/Supreme 9mm load was NOT the same as the old Black Talon, and did NOT have the "talons" that the Black Talon and Ranger T bullets have. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. A common misconception was that it was produced with a black Teflon coating. Please be respectful of others. In a shootout with two bank robbersWilliam Matix and Michael Platteight FBI agents, mainly armed with .357 Magnum revolvers loaded with .38 Special went up against Matix and Platt armed with .223 Remington rifles and shotguns. They actually became friends in the Army. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. was no expansion although you are correct that the body can keep going with a lot of punishment. "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063 BROWSE OUR New Arrivals! I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Reply Save Like It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. As boatloads of testing has displayed, the V-Crown is incredibly accurate and . Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon and open fired in a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. Check out ourDAILY DEALS pagefor industry deals and discounts. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. Gilbert Orrantia: S&W (model unknown, likely a Model 13, as it was an issued weapon at the time) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds .38 Special +P fired. Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. S&W 637 Remington 158 gr LHP +P / Gold dot 125 +P In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the plaintiff could not prevail because there were no defects in manufacturing, design, or in warnings the bullets "functioned exactly as designed".[11]. . In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. But affecting vital structure is what causes an interruption in aggression. One must rapidly cause a loss of blood pressure or break bones. Get the latest Offers, Outdoor News, Stories, and Reviews delivered to your inbox. The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. SIG V-Crown. No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty also offer superb terminal ballistics in all calibers theyre available in. [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. In March 2014, The Guardian newspaper reported that South African paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius had shot to death his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day the previous year with four Black Talons fired from a 9mm pistol. Glock 32 Gold dot 125 gr Grogan, however, is credited with landing the first hit of the gunfight, wounding Matix in the forearm as he leaned out of the Monte Carlo to fire the shotgun at Grogan and Dove. To the comment that the Black Talon did not fail you would be incorrect. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with flesh. Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned in the United States since 1986, and unless you had some beforehand, you likely wont be shooting any AP 9x19mm rounds anytime soon. [20], Platts actions at this moment in the fight have been debated. Hence, I tend to use Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Ranger Talons/PDX1 as EDC rounds I would ask others to try firing the otherwise well-conceived Critical Defense round through 2-4 of lumber to see if the nose also becomes clogged with soft would, preventing expansion entirely. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! He was incredibly informative. My hat is off to you. Although not available anymore, you can get comparable performance, if not better, out of the above alternatives. Subsequently, one of the shooting victim's family members filed a lawsuit against Olin, Inc, trying to hold them responsible for the victim's death. Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Can't Live Without, Full Feature: Anderson Manufacturing Kiger 9C Pro 9mm, The History Fixed and Adjustable Iron Sights, Throwback Thursday: All About Bullet Grain, Rifle Hack: Sighting for 100 Yards at a Distance of 25 Yards. The Black Talon, like all hollow point bullets, opens up (commonly called expansion or mushrooming) when it hits soft tissue. The companys excellent marketing campaign should be creditedfor putting the round out front and center, garnering more than 1.5 million views on YouTube over just a span of a few days. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. Before that Matix had already served in the Marines, then went Army. Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. Yeah, we cannot divulge that information publically. This ammo was considered to be the most deadliest ammo ever made. I need a bunch of those!! Misconceptions abound regarding these bullets, and you might even hear phrases likeits overpowered, its specifically designed to kill people, or strangely enough, its armor-piercing.. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. After only approx. You are 100% correct, that expansion is nice in preventing over penetration, but it is correct penetration that wins the fight. They sell for $50-$75 around. Glock 23 Gold dot 165 gr / HST 180 gr / Silver Tips 155 gr Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. This expansion creates a larger wound channel. Advanced For 9mm or .45 ACP, try Hornady Critical Duty. "Winchester to Limit Sales of Controversial Bullet", by Pierre Thomas, A Tax Debate Focuses on Destruction Science, "WINCHESTER LUBALOX COATED BULLETS FACT SHEET & FAQs]\", Hex Bullet Hi-Jinx: Taurus' capable copper bullet, "In Person; On the Other Side of the Divide", "Black Talons vs. SXT vs. T-Series etc", http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/press-releases/1781067-New-Winchester-reg-Bonded-PDX1-trade-Superior-Personal-Protection-Ammunition/, "An Official Journal of the NRA | FBI Selects Hornady Critical Duty Ammo", "Reeva Steenkamp was standing when Pistorius fired first shot, court told", "US Army's M1153 Special Purpose 9mm Hollow Point Ammo Tested -", "An Official Journal Of The NRA | M1152 & M1153: The Army's New 9 mm Luger Loads", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Black_Talon&oldid=1150014565, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 20:52.

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