Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? There is a new Recall specifically for this. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. My name is Zachary Drumm! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. Manage Preferences - I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. Honestly? By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. I am confused about this. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. I appreciate the help. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. Gotcha. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. Thanks! Only detectable at a crawl speed. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Just extended the coverage. Are CSP's only performed as needed? Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. Copyright 2022 by MechanicsPick.com! It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Contact Us - Thank you for choosing Ford! Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. Engine. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. JavaScript is disabled. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. Your email address will not be published. X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. (2). Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). call your dealer and schedule an appointment. Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Manage Preferences - You are using an out of date browser. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? You literally just typed back exactly what I said. The situation is really bad with Ford now. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Sometimes you can get a Ford for cheap because it has a cold start rattle. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. JavaScript is disabled. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. I got it too. In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? Your email address will not be published. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Privacy Statement - In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. This removes the shudder. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Contact Us - This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. JavaScript is disabled. These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Terms of Service - I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. What did you do to your truck today? Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. What did you do to your truck today? Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. The truck. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. Oh ok perhaps a good point. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. Terms of Service - I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. Id like to know whats causing this as well. Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. . Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? Reaction score. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. . (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Plenty of better engineered options out there. develop an undesirable noise. If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index152/. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. 10,492. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. In this article, we will discuss the PCM reprogramming process, the root cause of the program, and the solutions to the issue. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years.

Reelfoot Lake Fishing Guides, Haflinger Horses For Sale In Georgia, Articles F