A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. After logging in, the wp-settings-UID cookies store the logged-in user's configuration settings, while the wp-settings-time-UID cookies record the time those configuration settings were last set; again, there may be multiple iterations of each of these cookies, which normally expire after about one year. If governor pressure dropped below that threshold, the clutch would disengage. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on If the engine is not running smoothly and/or delivering consistent power, it can cause fluctuation in the "Desired" versus "Actual" torque converter clutch slippage along with a surging feeling. However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. Overdrive ratios drive the torque converter at speeds generally below normal coupling speed, creating increased slippage and heat, which is unacceptable. I changed to the Spartan V2 a few weeks ago. A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. another masterpiece. The torque converter is made up of five parts: 1. of course it could be logging falsely No, that just means its not locking, or the pid isn't reading right. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. . Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. You usually notice your car shuddering because itfeels like it's vibrating. 1. and 2. If the engine isnt free to turn faster than the driveshaft at rest or extremely low speeds, the engine will stall! and our *. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. Stall speed is measured in the car by applying the brakes and revving the engine in First gear against the brakes. Torque converter problems have a high impact on your car's ability to function and drive. So far the bogging down hasn't happened since last week. ), These third-party cookies may be set in connection with embedded video players for content hosted on the Vimeo video platform, for purposes such as (without limitation) managing video settings, storing video preferences, providing certain functionality (e.g., allowing you to pause a video at a particular point), associating your video viewing and other activity with your Vimeo account (if you have one), showing you advertising, ensuring proper functioning of the service, preventing abuse, and/or compiling user analytics data. Also, engaging a lockup clutch will prevent a torque converter from multiplying torque. Performance & security by Cloudflare. 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This is a session cookie that verifies that the user has entered valid user credentials pending receipt of the correct authentication code; the cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). My SunCoast converter has a little slip. Almost no one thinks of it, but when you drive your automatic transmission car, you're master over your cars torque converter. Comments may be moderated. Im not able to provide repair or maintenance advice, sorry! sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. New to the site and found it because of this read. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! by Silver Flex SEL. This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on the 310 tune and the truck still had all kinds of power even locked. The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. My truck was still putting down 575 on Dunbar's dyno with 100 RPM of slip.. im seeing 20rpm slip at most on my KEM 345, i know thats different. what is the protocol using AE to diagnosis torque slip. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. In first, the low band and one-way clutches held both sun gears, causing the ring gears to drive the planet carrier and output shaft at 43.3% of turbine speed (1 / 2.31). Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. U.S. Pat. PLEASE DON'T SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED CONTENT YOU AREN'T AUTHORIZED TO USE! We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. (Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. The clutch plate itself, which was faced on both sides with cork, was splined at its hub to the transmission input shaft. There are several ways to arrange such a clutch, but the common object is to create a mechanical connection between the engine and the transmission input shaft (which otherwise is driven by the fluid clutchs turbine(s)). You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. Estimate Converter Slip. What to Do to Fix Slipping or Shuddering. All other trademarks and/or service marks are the property of their respective owners. The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. scheme, but it does contribute. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. With a manual transmission, you are allowed the freedom to pick the starting-line rpm you want to apply when you dump the clutch. iThemes is one of the Liquid Web family of brands; iThemes and Liquid Web are trademarks of Liquid Web, LLC.). I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. Unlike Ultramatic and many subsequent torque converter automatics, the converter of the DG series was completely inoperative in top gear, so obtaining any additional torque multiplication required a downshift to second gear. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. How ever this did happen right after I did the six 0 to 60 mph relearn runs. The torque converter, with its multiple elements, is being manufactured with an eye towards the future. When you have contaminated transmission fluid that has bits of this and that in it This is an indication that you have bigger problems inside the converter or transmission. by Silver Flex SEL. As long as this mechanical lockup remains fully engaged, there is no slip, which improves fuel economy (typically by around 4% at cruising speeds) and provides throttle response and engine braking comparable to a vehicle with a manual gearbox. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hence, you've commanded your torque converter every time your car shifted gears. As youll see if you look at the first one, the original iteration had three speeds forward and one reverse, for which it requires four epicyclic gearsets. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The DG series transmissions obtained their indirect ratios with a compound planetary gearset. For example, if engine speed is 2,500 rpm, the turbine might only turn 2,375 rpm: hydraulic slippage of 5%. How exactly are you measuring how much the tc is slipping? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. (author diagram). Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. For example, in park, it will say Desired Slip 1200, Actual: 730 (guess the engine rpm) As speed increases, the Desired Slip drops (don't remember exact numbers) as well as the actual. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not familiar with your specific transmission. Such cookies and/or stored data items may be set by various domains (such as, though not necessarily limited to, youtube.com; youtube-nocookie.com; googlevideo.com; ytimg.com; google.com; accounts.google.com; www.googleadservices.com; and/or doubleclick.net, which is part of the DoubleClick advertising service, also owned by Google LLC). Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? The cookies are not set at all unless you select that option when submitting a comment. This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. The good news is, if it is just your torque converter that is having issues since it's a self-contained unit, you may not need to replace or rebuild your whole transmission. Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 am, You need to be a member in order to post a reply, Not a member? I just checked it yesterday and it was right at the full indicator with the transmission properly warmed up. Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. It took the addition of a small device called the stator to increase the efficiency of the fluid coupling and transform it into a torque converter. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. (author diagram). To serve up a little enlightenment, let's take a spin through the torque-converter world and make some sense out of all the superstition. The speed difference between impeller and turbine is simply lost to heat within the operating fluid. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Archive - abs thank you for posting your experience here. This is how the first fluid couplings were designed, but they were hideously inefficient because of high slippage. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. During a shudder the desired will stay close to 0rpm but the act pid will go up and down in rpm. This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. Like the contemporary Buick Dynaflow, Ultramatic was designed to operate most of the time in its direct drive top gear. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. California residents also have the Right to Opt-Out of the sale of their personal information see the Do Not Sell My Personal Information page. Since the transmission was largely dependent on the torque converter for torque multiplication, it was crucial that the lockup clutch not engage prematurely and that there be some means to immediately disengage it for acceleration. That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. First, that slip wastes some fuel youre paying for more engine revolutions (and more power) than reach the driveshaft. Click to reveal You've now repaired or replaced your torque converter if it exhibited any of the above common torque converter problems. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 Once the vehicle is moving at a constant speed, the speed difference between the impeller and turbine diminishes, eventually reaching a minimum point known as coupling stage. The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. if I'm seeing "desired TC slip" of 1020rpm at all times wouldnt that pretty much guarantee the TC would never lock? For more information about what data PayPal services collect and how that data may be used, visit the "Legal Agreements for PayPal Services" page to review the PayPal Privacy Statement and Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that apply in your location (the Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that applies to each region is linked from within the applicable PayPal Privacy Statement). I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. 51.91.16.67 by Silver Flex SEL. If the fluid becomes contaminated, anything that uses and relies on the fluid can be damaged. Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. I feel better and it makes more sense now. Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Change Background Color (Note: This option sets cookies on your device to manage your color settings; see the Cookie Notice for details.). As the new owner of a 92 Alante with the viscous clutch I wondered what the difference was. 91.234.33.200 3. and 5. Ate Up With Motor and its embedded content providers may use cookies and/or similar technologies and collect personal information about site visitors as described in the Privacy Policy and Cookie Notice. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. If it does go let us know. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. There are tried and true methods for fixing the five common torque converter issues. Ate Up With Motor's Terms of Use and Privacy Policy may be revised from time to time. All rights reserved. In first and second gears, the converter turbine drove the front annulus (ring gear). In this design, the two basic components in the fluid coupling are the impeller blades (the drive side), which are connected to the engine, and the turbine blades (the driven member), which are splined to the input shaft of the transmission.

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